We Grew Up On a Hutterite Colony, But We Had No Assurance of Salvation | Dan, Don & Derek

(00:00) There’s actually nothing to do with uh whosoever does good works or whosoever gets baptized, whosoever lives in the Hutterite colony. I rang up my brother Daniel. Bro, they have the truth. And he said to me, stay away from them. >> According to them, he is the mediator between God and man. >> You were joking.

(00:20) >> He comes out of the the washroom and and he just rejoices. And I’m like, oh boy, he’s he’s one of those now. It says, “Whosoever believes or trusts or relies in Christ,” it says, “A light came to my life. Jesus died for me. It is finished.” >> That’s why Jesus died for. He died for me. >> Dan, Don, and Derek Hoffer, welcome to the Gospel Hall audio podcast.

(00:48) >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Great to have you here. I know it’s a freezing cold day out. They opened the door earlier on and this cloud of steam came in from the minus 30 outside. >> Yeah. >> So tell us a little bit about yourself. Don, you’re you run your own business. Is that right? >> No, I’m electrician.

(01:09) So I work for for somebody close to home. Okay. Mostly in Winnipeg. >> And you’ve lived here all your life >> in Manitoba. Yes. Yeah. >> Cool. >> Yeah. Now, for the benefit of viewers and listeners, you two guys are twin brothers, right? >> That is right. Yeah, correct. >> And you run your own business together? >> You run your own construction business.

(01:27) That’s right. >> Okay. Doing what? >> Doing concrete. We do some uh carpentry mostly, but mostly concrete. >> And are you guys married with kids? >> Yes. Um I’m actually married to this is my father-in-law here. So, um some family dibs here. Um but yeah, I’m married to his daughter from England and um married a couple years a just uh last in 224 and um so I have two children, two twins, twin girls.

(02:00) Um lovely little twin girls just recently a few months ago. >> And you have two boys, right? >> I’ve been married for close to 15 years now. U my wife is from Portage Prairie and I have two boys. >> Okay. >> Wonderful. Mhm. >> So, what we’re doing today is we’re doing four sessions, four episodes for the podcast.

(02:22) We just had some Menanites in and you guys are all from a Hutterite background. >> Yes. Yes. As I was saying to the previous group, I was familiar with the Amish from being in Pennsylvania and seeing all that the buggies and everything, but the Hutterite thing was well until I met you. It was I was really >> had no idea. >> So, we need to kind of get a bit of a background into >> like with the Menanites, we went right back to the 16th century.

(02:53) So, I guess it’s going to be a similar time frame for the right. So, what can you what can you tell us about how it started, where it started, and a little bit of the background to why it ended up in Manitoba? >> Right. Um, do I go on this one? >> Sure. >> Just a little bit of background. Um, it does go back to the 16th century, even earlier a little bit in the 1530s >> when they original Jacob >> Hutter >> out of um South Terroll or >> So, his surname Hutter, that’s where we get Hutter rights from.

(03:24) >> That’s correct. Exactly. Um that’s where it originated initially and he was >> as far as their beliefs what they believed is they believed in so they were part of the inabaptist movement. >> So they would have been brought up in the Catholic church. >> Right. Exactly. >> Because they were the Menanites were telling us that Manosima was actually a Roman Catholic priest at one point.

(03:45) >> Right. >> So what about Jacob Hutter? Um he was a very devout person and uh he was um exceedingly zealous and for his now he would have been from that that um religion that background and he but he received a lot of flack and when he he decided to be anabaptist one of those that believed in adult baptism not not um being baptized as a baby >> which um created a huge um like uh backlash for him and then he also So they also one of the main core beliefs that they had at least the early group initially to this day is something that

(04:25) we a verse that they go off of which they all based based it on was was found in Acts that’s the main verse that they all use and it was in Acts 2 verse 44 to 45 where it says and they and all that believed were together and had all things common which means that community of goods and it says they sold their possessions and goods and parted them amongst to all men as every man had need.

(04:56) So that was one of the main core beliefs that was the core belief of the hotter rice as far as and as well as um being sprinkled or baptized as a adult. >> Mhm. So did they again with the Menanites they were saying that originally they would have done when they broke away from the Roman Catholic Church they would have done baptism by immersion right >> whereas now it’s gone to pouring.

(05:16) >> Mhm. >> So what would have happened? Would it have been similar? >> The rebaptizing would have been by immersion or >> Well that’s a great question. I I I it might have been in the early early part when they initially did it. >> However, of course that changed over time. >> Sure.

(05:36) Clearly that was a big big change to it wasn’t too sprinkling now as we know it where I grew up in. >> Um but what happened is they were also pacifists. So they were they believed in conscientious objectors to anything of war or anything. They didn’t take up believe in taking up arms >> and so they would they had a few things that that of course inevitably brought perse persecution for them.

(05:57) >> Mhm. they started going and then from from Terroll. Um >> so where is Terroll? >> So that would be in Austria. >> So it’s in present day Austria >> is in present day Austria but actually part of it is in present day Austria but but a lot of it was in is in present day northern Italy which is sutur south where they originated from a lot of farmland they all live together.

(06:19) So if you went on holiday to that part of the world today, would you still find hutterites or are they >> Well, actually no, I you can’t find them there presently because I mean I I have been there and the language is still is still the same. A lot of language still similar cuz I was there and I was pretty surprised.

(06:36) I’m fifth generation, sixth generation Canadian growing up speaking this dialect and going there and it’s still there and I’ve never been there before and it’s from that region as a spoken language not as much written so it’s from the area but they because of their strong beliefs in community living and and not taking up arms and Anabaptists being being persecuted by Catholics Catholic church >> they they had to flee and they fled from country to country they actually as a group they went to Czech Republic um >> Mhm. Chacha back then and then they went

(07:10) they stayed there for a while settled there till they got persecuted again and then they moved north to Hungary and then from Hungary they moved they settled there for a period maybe 100 years and until they got persecution and they moved up north to Ukraine and that’s how we have a lot of Ukrainian foods >> that we eat and a lot of the same we picked up different foods along the way and then we moved to Russia as well and that was probably to late 187 1850 >> very similar to what the Menanite group were telling us they they they went from

(07:39) uh Netherlands to Poland. They stayed in Poland for >> right >> two or 30 hundred years. Then they went to Russia and then finally so it’s sounds very very similar >> and that’s why there’s a lot of Russian influence or background but the Hutites remains distinct because they didn’t marry anyone outside of so they kept their their original um I I would say like their um >> I guess Austrian um at least >> culture >> culture.

(08:08) Then they were kept the people as well like they were all they were all Austrians even though they’re in Ukraine and in in Russia they were all the remained Austrian people. >> So all along they’re growing bigger and bigger and bigger as but not by not by marrying other ones just by marrying and becoming bigger as families and then they moved in the 1870s60s they moved to North America >> and remember they got persecuted all all the way and then they move finally moved to the prairies where there’s lots of >> so they sailed across the ocean in the

(08:34) late 1800s. >> Exactly. So 3 350 years they would have been in Europe. So it’s only been the last 150 years roughly where they’ve actually been in North America. >> Now the Menanite friends were telling me that they were given two tracks of land in Manitoba by the government to and that’s where the Menanites originally came and some of them went down to South America.

(08:58) So, did the Huts rights get given land or did they have to buy it or? >> Um, >> nothing I’m I’m I’m aware of myself, but I remember they did go to it was North Dakota where the original uh colony was in the US. In the US, just across the border in from Manitoba South >> and then they settled there. Remember the first colony I think was Rosedale in in the States, >> Bonham Colony? >> Bonham Colony, right? South Dakota >> and then so South Dakota, North Dakota and then they immigrated to Canada as well to Manitoba and then Saskatchewan and Alberta and there’s different groups

(09:29) within the Hutterites >> of different um there would be quite different some ways. >> Same with the Mananites. We were talking earlier with another group. They’ve got the old colony Menanites all the way through to kind of liberal manites. >> Yeah. >> So that would be similar >> similar.

(09:48) So what happened? So they left have to leave Russia because the Russian government enforced Russian language, Russian culture into their their whole livelihood. So then they came to the US. But then World War I started in 1918 around there. So they got severely persecuted again for not bearing arms, not wearing uniform. >> Well, there’s a revolution in Russia.

(10:07) >> No, in in in the US. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. So then the Canadian government still needed farmers. And then they started coming up to around Eli which is close to where I live. >> And that’s where some of the first Hutterites in Manitoba settled along the Cind River or close to it. >> Right. >> So the Hutites first came to where we are filming today in the early 20th century.

(10:30) >> Yeah. >> Wow. So they’ve only been here 100 years. >> Right. >> And now there’s like 189 colonies or something in Manitoba. >> Yeah. Yeah. There’s a lot of them. There’s over 100 in Manitoba, I would say. And then and then there’s also some in Saskatchewan and and Alberta Hodites are in three different groups and I think that’s we need to mention that because we’re not all exactly the same >> like we would be called light would be our our background.

(10:57) There’s a three different men that started these groups >> and so some going the lights which is our our Manitoba most of Manitoba and North Dakota South maybe some in Saskatchewan. >> Mhm. But then in Saskatchewan, Alberta would be more the provinces of of Canada there would be more like Darius Light which is another group and also Lite and so there’s they’re just three distinct groups but they all believe in the same core.

(11:22) >> Okay. >> Same core >> community of goods having a common bank account >> exactly each other. >> So I want to just talk I’ll bring you in here. Um >> Dan I’m going to get these names in a minute. Yeah. >> Um, your accent when you guys when you guys came to the UK, everybody thought you were Irish. >> Okay. >> Because some of the words that you say, they sound like you come from County Cork in Ireland.

(11:50) So, so where did this unique accent come from? Cuz you don’t sound Canadian, but you don’t sound British. So, what is it? >> That is right. Um, I remember like you said, most people who talk to us and I like asking them where do you think their accent is from? because they notice an accent and and they do usually say Ireland.

(12:10) Um, and I’ve had people say to me, you’re specifically from Cork, like you said. Uh, now we got we we kept this accent because they were such a distinct group. So, they would pass it down from generation to generation and it is quite uh it’s German. It’s a German dialect, Austrian dialect. Uh, and we were speaking in our houses. So, we kept it quite distinct.

(12:33) Uh, so it is it is German, Austrian, German. >> So would all hust be bilingual, German and English? >> That is correct. >> Absolutely. You speak German to each other or English? >> We would speak English and sometimes we would speak German like at the job sites for example, we would speak uh sometimes German, sometimes English.

(12:50) >> Like that would be our terroll dialect. Yes. Not the actual German speaking. So, so if so if a German from Munich, let’s say in Germany, if he listened to you speak German, would he understand it? >> Hopefully, like I have German friends and I can speak to them somewhat, but that is distinct from our the dialect that >> So you have a particular like a German dialect which has it died out except in the Hutterites or it’s still being spoken in South Troll.

(13:21) There is it is still being spoken in south troll. I was there last year with my wife and I spoke to them in in south in actually in troll which is in insbrook and they said I speak perfect trollian which is very fascinating because it would be here for that many generations and we’ve kept it because it was um kept within the confines of the community.

(13:43) Um, but we do also learn German, like the high German language. Like in school, we learn from from 5 years old till we’re 15 years old. We have I I believe two hours a day at least of German school. >> So, we learn the language of the high German. So, because all the sermons that the Hutterites um preach from are actually all in high German because our dialect cannot be written down.

(14:09) I I believe they’re working on that, but it hasn’t been a written language. So, we learn high German to understand the sermons that they uh wrote back then. >> So, when sorry when when we were talking to the Menanites, they were saying that they live in colonies. So, one lady said that in Bolivia they still have 89 colonies of Menanites to this day.

(14:33) Um and and Mexico and so on. But their colonies were different to the Hutterite colonies as far as I can understand it because to them a colony is simply like a village of people. They own their own houses. They own their own cars. So they’re in a group. >> Yeah. But what makes the Harterites unique as far as I can understand from the other Anabaptist groups like Menanites, Amish, whatever is that you have this strong belief in not just living in a community but living in a community where every nobody owns anything. Exactly. That’s right. It

(15:07) all belongs to this >> colony and >> so basically you don’t get wages, you don’t own any money, you just live in this group. >> Yeah. and they see that as a version of Acts chapter 2 and it’s it >> it also seems like it’s almost like a religious thing where that a commitment to that is part of their salvation.

(15:28) Would that would that be right? Would that be fair to say? >> That is very correct, Michael. Yeah, they do believe that they have the best way. >> Okay. >> The closest way according to the Bible to get to heaven. So they basically think they have the inside track. >> This community thing is like the touchstone.

(15:43) >> Yes, 100%. Definitely. Like for example, they believe it it’s like an arc. I’ve heard that analogy by by the ministers in the colony like Noah’s ark. So >> you’re within the ark. The ark is the the colony that and you have all things to come. You have a head start. >> Yeah. >> And everyone outside >> God’s going to judge, but we have we have the the we have the the best way because we’re following according to the scriptures to say.

(16:10) And so the whole thing is built on this verse, these two verses there. So, so let’s just stop there a minute then. What would you say now? You’re no longer in the hutrite movement, although obviously you appreciate your background and your families and everything. H how should a person look at that verse? How did they get to the point where they think that’s part of their salvation? And and why why do you now think that verse is nothing to do with salvation? Well, um, if someone else wants to go, I can go.

(16:45) Um, >> well, according to Acts 2, uh, 44 and 45, they miss, I believe, the main part of it all, which is it said, “And all who believed >> had all things come.” And now, if I understand the history there correctly, these people would have been persecuted. They would have been gotten saved, been born again and back in the Bible.

(17:11) No, that’s too >> uh so they would have been um they would have believed in Christ and it being a Jewish um start >> they would have been persecuted from their homes and they would have been chased put out of the synagogues and so on. So they would have needed help from each other to even live. They didn’t have social programs like we have today.

(17:31) So they would have they would help each other out as believers. all all these people that did this would have been true born again Christians who believed in Christ alone. So it says and all who believed and I I feel like that is looked looked over completely and they just focus on having all things common but not believing in Christ alone.

(17:55) And also you’re saying because it was the the original days of the church, the persecution of the Jews, it was like a temporary situation where you where you have this need and so they decided we need to help each other out. But that’s not setting down a pattern that has to be followed nor is it part of anybody’s getting to heaven.

(18:13) >> That is correct. It would have been only for a temporary if basically a solution to the problem temporarily >> but not not a not a way to get to heaven by no means. um it is just helping each other out as Christians but not a pattern to to get to heaven. It is Christ alone as we know from other verses and this would be more for functionality of the New Testament church helping each other out.

(18:38) >> So let’s spend a few minutes on what it’s actually like. I I want to I want to talk to you um Don. What what is it actually like growing up in a hut? I mean, to me, it’s just like I just could not imagine growing up in a situation where you don’t own anything. You just do what you’re told. You know, if you’re told you need to work in the pig barn, you go and work in the pig barn.

(19:01) And >> you go to church every day, I believe. And you’ve got to you you got to wear a certain type of clothing. And it’s just unfathomable in in in 21st century Canada that there’s 189 communities live like this. So, so what’s it actually like growing up like that? >> For me, I I really actually enjoyed it. I look back at my early childhood and I’m very thankful >> for my mom and dad.

(19:27) I I have seven siblings. So, I come from a large family and yeah, like any other kid, we had lots of freedom. There was big wood lot around our colony and we spent hours and hours doing that. We could play sports, enjoyed hockey, still the best board out there. And >> yeah, and you went to school. You went to school. >> So like >> they have schools on the colony.

(19:48) >> Yes. So they have the German school so we can learn German strictly for being used in the Had church setting and then you would learn English so you could function with the outside world. But so the English teachers would come from the the secular education system. So they would use the Manitoba curriculum.

(20:07) So they they have a few Christian schools now, but it is solely based on the Manitoba curriculum. >> So the col colony is willing to hire >> someone who’s not a hutterite to teach. Yes. >> Anything else to work? >> Sometimes they’ve had to because now they’ve gone into more uh fabricating and doing different things, factory type settings.

(20:29) So they bring them in reluctantly, but in order to survive, they’ve had to. So, as far as my home life, I’m very thankful for my mom and dad teaching me the Bible. I’ve never doubted it, never disputed in German. We did have English English Bibles at home. My dad wasn’t against it, but for most part, it’s in German and it’s encouraged in German and very much discouraged to read your English Bible.

(20:52) >> So, family life would have been very traditional. >> You’d have had electricity and all that kind of stuff. >> When I came along, we already had that. Thank you. >> Apparently the day I came home from the hospital, they got running running water in. So that was 1976. So yeah, big change. >> And then so would you so you sit around the table for all your meals? Very traditional.

(21:16) >> No. No. That’s that’s an unfortunate part when I look back at it now having my own family and sitting around a table with my beautiful family and being able to to read the scriptures together as a family to pray together as a family. But that had setting it again very communal minded.

(21:32) So you would eat your meals in the common dining room. >> Oh wow. >> Segregation, men on one side, women on the other side, oldest to the youngest. >> So you have your coffee breaks and if you had company over, you would eat at home. >> Okay. >> But the family unit is very much not really in focus. It’s more the community, >> which is really strange.

(21:52) Now that I have my own family, and I I don’t desire that. I’m glad we’re doing what we’re doing. >> Wow. So I always imagined that these groups were very family oriented. >> No. >> So you’re saying it’s more community oriented? >> Yes, very much. >> Wow. So what was it like sitting in a dining room with all these men? >> Yeah,

(22:13) I guess. Yeah. Well, the thing is you don’t really visit. It was basically eat, get done what you needed to do and pack out so you can get back to work. >> Okay. >> So they didn’t really spend lots of time and that’s was my experience. Yeah. Not really socializing. So every So Derek, every day is the same. You get up at the same time, you go to work.

(22:31) Do you have communal breakfast? >> You do. And that’s actually one of the biggest things. One of one of the biggest things if you ask a hutterite is you to be a good hutterite. You start with the breakfast. If you everyone everyone is encouraged to be at breakfast. >> Um it’s almost part of the religion, you know, to be at breakfast.

(22:46) I know that growing up I can I can I can authenticate it. It’s very real. My dad was a minister. So he was one of the main guys um that would be over the colony >> in the religious way and he’d be teaching the from the sermons >> and that’s the highest one of the highest position. It is the highest position in the colony.

(23:03) There’s two usually. So I grew up in a home where my dad was a was one of those. He was a minister and he was a great dad really good at what he what he did and he was very like he raised us with god-fearing >> um good life like a good good hut right to live by the rules. >> Mh. And so we would go we would go to in the morning to start go to breakfast at 7:15 or something.

(23:26) It could be different for different colonies but for us it was quite >> like they ring a bell. >> Yeah. The whole bell of the whole colony rings and in each home I think it might go off as well and say it’s time to go. Everyone the whole colony goes together and eats in one common place. The the children from age age 5 to 15 are in the in one area segregated girls and boys.

(23:45) And typically this will be like 200 people or >> uh it could be 150 around 150. >> Yeah. So anywhere 80 to 150 is a general size of a colony. >> And once you finish breakfast you go to work or school or you go to school if if your children you can go to either either German school. If you’re between the age of 5 to 15 you can go to German school for for a couple for maybe hour and then you start English school for the day. Okay.

(24:07) >> And then but at noon and then if you’re of course if you’re adult you go to your work whatever your designated thing which me was pig barn. I had to work in a pig barn. Yeah, >> that was going to be my future. Um, and I didn’t I didn’t enjoy it particularly at all. And so for me, um, when I was 15 to 17, that was you’re considered adult at 15.

(24:25) >> So you leave school at 15. >> You leave school at 15. Not not every colony does, but like for a lot of us, at least when I was there, um, I left from I had to get your own designated um, job. So it could be >> So the elders of the colony decide what job you’re going to do. So what were you doing? Were you in the pig bomb? >> I was going to be in the dairy barn.

(24:47) Okay. >> So, I was milking cows >> but a little bit better than a pig farm. >> That is correct. I think so. Agree. I would say don’t you I really enjoyed that. I was cutting the alalfa. Uh I was helping out with cow milking cows. Holene we had about 25 head of holstein and maybe 150 head of beef cows. Okay. >> So, we also had a pasture with all the beef cows.

(25:09) So, we that was more going to be my job. >> And what about you? >> Same thing. Oh, >> I I was uh turned 16. I was uh done school. It was my birthday and I got a call. I started off in a pig barn. Started right on the bottom. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> And then so the neat thing is you do so they move you around every year. >> So you do get an opportunity.

(25:28) >> So then the next year I think it was a chicken barn, then dairy. So you do get to learn a lot of things and a lot of different uh skill sets working with different animals. Then I did carpentry. My dad was electrician, plumber. So you do learn a lot of need needful life skills that you’re going to use. >> Are they raising these pigs and chickens and cows just to consume themselves or do they sell them to other people or what what way does it work? >> Both. Okay.

(25:58) >> Yeah. So they sell them to make money obviously but then Yeah, we do have a large avatar and we kill our own chickens and process them for our own. Yeah. >> So you have breakfast, then you work, then you the bell goes again, lunch. around 11:20 11:30 >> then the bell goes again supper >> right but supper before uh before supper >> you the bell rings and everyone goes to church >> so you go to church every single day that is the core one of the core things of the of the colony of course because it’s part of the religion of getting to

(26:26) heaven by works >> um so you have to be a good hunter you have to be the breakfast at the to get all the comm community meals and everything and also go to church and and then that’s that’s before the supper before the sort of evening meal >> Mhm. M >> they would have everyone would go to church and >> then you have your meal and then the evening is free.

(26:44) >> Right. Exactly. >> Yeah. So then we were I was talking to the Menanites earlier on about church. So they were saying it was a plain building, wooden benches. Uh they would sing some hymns and they were describing this kind of funny way of singing that they had one word could last 10 seconds or something >> like a chanting kind of thing.

(27:05) And the preacher had a particular kind of intonation when they preached. >> Yeah. Um and so so in the Hutterite church is it similar? There’s no stained glass windows or you know it’s it’s like a plainish building with the forms and then so the this preacher guy there there’s one per colony or >> there could be two because assistant one usually there’s one one one senior one and one >> so he’s called a preacher or minister.

(27:31) >> We do call it a preacher. He’s usually minister whatever word I guess you want to use. So yeah, it’d usually be an older one and then a younger one. >> So what does he what does he preach then in his sermon every day? >> Well, so going back to tradition. So they have these sermon books that were written back in the days of Diana Baptist by the forefathers and then for years they meticulously handwritten kept copying them down by hand but now I think they do it by computer.

(27:58) So those are in German like Daniel pointed out. So sadly they actually don’t use >> Oh German. Yeah. All of them. So sadly and tragically, they don’t use God’s word in their church service. They re they read, they’re not preachers, they’re readers of these sermon books, >> right? Oh, >> that they have a schedule for >> Oh, so there’s like a liturgy where it’s all decided beforehand.

(28:19) >> So they pull it out of their shelf. One guy called it a ready cut bread and then he goes up and in a very monotone singongy voice he reads it. And some of them are quite good in the German so they’ll add their own interpretation to it. >> So nobody opens the Bible in the church. There’s no Bible there. >> Wow.

(28:35) >> And they start singing. So the the preacher will do one line and the congregation will sing once. And that’s >> Oh, I see. >> Very much enforced for by some some of the groups. Very much enforced. And the reason they did that because apparently that we were told back in the days of the Anabaptists, they didn’t have enough money for him books.

(28:53) >> So they would have one and they would do it sometimes in dark places to avoid being arrested. >> So because it’s salvation by works and tradition has to be kept on even now when we have him. books and they’re very good singers. You love singing >> and just an interruption after every line.

(29:10) You have to stop and get the next line. Even though you memorize these hymns by heart. >> Yeah. >> And just stall, read, go. >> So that’s half an hour every day. It should be every day. Sometimes it isn’t, but for most part it’s every day. >> And then evening. And then they would have a the preacher would then pray and it would be a recited prayer.

(29:28) And they would pray for last 5 10 minutes. I’m not sure how long it was, but they would recite the prayer every day, all the time. The same prayer we’ve heard all of our lives. So, it’ll be recited prayer and he memorized this whole prayer. >> And how long’s the prayer? >> It would be five minutes. >> So, everybody kneels on the floor, you pray as well or just he does.

(29:47) Same old same old prayer. >> So, do you say the Lord’s prayer as well or No, >> no. >> No. No. >> Wow. >> Not. So again to try and distinguish these groups in in Hutterite colonies do they have cars, electricity, computers, TVs, mobile phones, what what kind of what kind of culture is it? >> Right.

(30:12) So so there that’s where the big distinction between the Amish or even some of those Manite colonies. The Amish would have more like they wouldn’t have the power or the electricity and they would have horse and boggy. a lot of them they believe in this sort of way. Whereas the hunter have a lot more of a like they have the modern technology.

(30:28) They would have modern vehicles like often the very newest ones, beautiful vehicles and they actually love they love having nice new vehicles. >> Um and then they would have like very nice houses, beautiful houses and wellb built >> and like very modern often. And so they would be able >> even though they don’t own these houses.

(30:46) >> Even though they don’t own them, but they live in them and it’s owned by the one one colony bank. So nobody like me person doesn’t I don’t own anything. I don’t I don’t own not I don’t own a vehicle. I don’t own a a house. It it’s given to me by the colony. But it’s almost like a temporary. This is mine.

(31:01) It’s but it’s >> if if if I have if I leave the colony, >> it stays there and you don’t get anything. Mhm. >> And >> that’s very important to understand when you become a Christian or trust in Christ which we’re going to get into. >> Mhm. >> That is a very big thing you have to leave behind.

(31:18) Leave everything behind >> with nothing. You leave with nothing. >> So as far as the um the family culture, it’s mainly about communities. Um so is is there a whole team of ladies in the background making these breakfast, lunch, and suppers? Oh yeah, I mean that must be that’s like that’s like running a whole event every day, right? How does that work? >> So yeah, so they have one head cook.

(31:45) Some of the colleagues now have two. So they had so they get a break, but then every week there’s two different ladies from the colony. I think it’s age 17 to 45 that you have your slotted time during the year. It goes in a cycle that you have to prepare the meals. Yeah, they love their food and it’s really good.

(32:02) Maybe not always the healthiest, but it’s it’s uh yeah, quite they love their their meats and yeah, processing all their meat and preparing it. Beautiful big gardens and uh there lots of fruit and vegetable. Yeah, they do it well. >> So, what we want to move on to now is is just talking about how you came to be where you are now.

(32:23) So, you’re no longer in the Hutterite colony. >> There’s all different reasons why people may leave. Some may go back. So um as growing up as a hutterite boy, let’s start with you. >> Sure, >> Don. Growing up as a hutterite boy on as far as spiritual things are concerned, God, the Bible, whatever. >> What’s your kind of in your head you’re thinking I’m going to need to do this, this, this, this, and this, and then this is heaven at the end kind of thing.

(32:52) So what what does that line look like in a hutterite colony? So for like we touched on some of it, it would be to basically live communally, go obey all the rules that you’re told, be a faithful member of the colony, work hard. They they do work hard and but they really emphasize that. And then basically once you hit the age of about 21 to 25, you’re expected to get baptized or sprinkled as they do it and become a member of the Hutterite church because only then can you proceed with your life really cuz you have if you

(33:28) want to get married if you have a girlfriend at that point you have to jump through the hoops >> in order to do that. And then after you’re given more responsibility, like maybe you’ll get your own job. You’ll be the manager of the turkey barn for example or farm boss or whatever, >> whatever it is.

(33:45) And then yeah, you work hard. You try to do the best you can and then if you die having kept the covenant with the hutter church, you can hope and never know for sure that you’ve made it. >> Wow. Okay. So it’s kind of baptism. So, do you go do you get like catechized in the run-up to your baptism? So, you have to agree to the >> to the beliefs of the church >> and you get baptized and then you join the church >> and then you basically try your best to live a good life after that.

(34:18) >> That’s right. >> Um, so then do you do they have communion or confession or what other things do they do? >> They do have confession. So when it comes to going back to where when we were sprinkled or the catechism for so for six weeks you’d go to a member of the the elders and on Sunday afternoon you group and they would one by one admonish you so my personal experience one of my one of the elders would read a book in German no explanation just very humrum dry no joy to the group oh to a group >> to a group cuz you’re moving around in a

(34:56) group house to house to the elders Okay. >> Another another one of them would read an Old Testament story to us which had nothing to do with salvation whatsoever. Did admonish you to live good lives, to be good, try your best, and God will in his riches, mercy, and grace maybe grant you eternal life.

(35:16) Sometimes the word new birth was mentioned, but they really don’t understand it sadly because they put the event of baptism as being the new birth, which I found out later that it wasn’t. So then yeah. So then you have this long memorized poem which is actually really good. It is a confession of faith.

(35:34) It’s it’s accurate according to the Bible like why are you call yourself a Christian? I believed in Jesus. >> So you have all that head knowledge like growing up >> because you do believe the Bible and you do believe the narrative and Jesus is a historical person >> and all those things. You you don’t dispute them >> and I never did. >> But it was never never personal.

(35:52) So the Saturday before my baptism, I got to sit down with my uncle in a dark room and I had to confess his ter. It was a very stressful time. All the bad things I did and there was lots of them. >> Why to your uncle? >> He was the preacher. He was the ordained preacher. So according to them, >> he is the mediator between God and man, which the Bible Yeah, >> you’re joking.

(36:14) >> No, I’m not. And the Bible is very clear that there’s only one God and one mediator between God and man, which is Christ Jesus. Mhm. >> But I’m I’m thinking of the history. So So the hutes came out of the Catholic church, the Roman Catholic Church, where you have confession to a priest. >> Yes. >> And the intercession of saints and all that.

(36:33) >> So you’re even though you’ve come out of it, you have a very similar kind of thing going on, right? >> It is. Yeah. Yeah. >> So you went to your uncle who was the preacher or do you call him priests or preachers? >> Preacher. He functions as a priest. So he functions as a priest and he somehow is able to so every single sin has to be confessed to this man or you can confess it straight to God as well.

(37:00) >> They don’t like you saying that cuz then they lose their power. >> So they confuse some of the verses in the Bible which clearly talk about church discipline >> to salvation >> because they they’re not saved themselves. So then yes. So, so they give you a grace period like if you and I guess if you don’t do it deliberately is what they tell you that you forgot certain sins you don’t want him to know then God does forgive you but you have more you can go if you wanted to go let’s say Sunday morning again and it

(37:26) does happen you can quickly run home before you get sprinkled or baptized as they call it >> into the hutter church then you still have an opportunity but then they’ll say if you would actually die at that point you would be guaranteed of heaven >> because your sins are gone because dear ordained preacher, minister, priest, whatever you want to call him, has taken him for God for you.

(37:48) >> So you have this confession before you get baptized. But then is there other confessions later like once a year or something? >> So they have once a year to do communion. So you have a twoe period before before Easter, same time as anybody else does communion who’s in the Christian world, >> that you can go home if you have grievous sin to make it right.

(38:08) So if you need church discipline, it will be applied just so that you can be clean again to take communion. >> So So all Hutzerites can only take communion once a year. >> That’s right. >> And it’s around Easter. >> Yeah. And they follow again their sermon outline and no sermon books come up to the Easter time and that’s what they’ll use >> and then they all take communion and they kind of feel that’s them clear for another year.

(38:32) Is it? >> Yes. Okay. >> It’s very almost Jewish almost >> during day of atonement. But we are very Catholic still some of it. >> Mhm. >> So then you got you you made the confession to your uncle who was the preacher. You then got baptized. You then got received into the church >> and as far as you knew at that point you’re good to go for heaven or certainly >> I was told that but I did not feel that Michael.

(38:57) >> I was searching at that point. I had watched the lives of some of my friends being changed by the gospel. >> Okay. and they had actually gotten saved truly born again >> before any of their experience with the Hutterite church. >> Oh, I see. >> And their life had changed. Whereas some of the people, some of my cousins and other ones who had gone through the Hutterite church, there was no difference in their life.

(39:18) Maybe they turn over a new leaf. >> Mhm. >> And they were remorseful and then they were good maybe for a week, a month after, but then they would fall back into all the hideous things we did before. >> Alcohol is a huge problem. I had a huge problem with it. And just the stuff you consume from >> alcohol on the colony >> big time. Yeah.

(39:36) It’s the it’s the acceptable. >> Is that a known thing or is it >> Absolutely. It’s encouraged. It’s given it’s given to you. They make they’re great wine makers. They have Yeah. >> You actually get your beer. >> You actually get it as like every month or so they give you an allowance really of of alcohol. >> Yeah. >> It’s quite fascinating.

(39:55) >> Is drunkenness frowned on? >> Sort of. But it’s so rampant. It’s Yeah. >> Wow. >> Yeah. It’s a real real problem. And it’s sad because I think some of them they’re just enslaved by it because they’re trying to please God and they ultimately can’t >> cuz the natural man can’t please God. >> Sure. >> So then they just use it as an excuse to maybe get away from >> the wrath of God or the dis disapproval.

(40:19) >> So what age were you when you got baptized? >> So I was 23 years old. >> Okay. And what age were you when you got saved? uh shortly thereafter. >> Oh, really? >> Yes. >> Well, maybe we should just do that now before we talk to Dan and Derek. Sure. So, so >> what was what was going on between your baptism and when you got saved? >> Okay, let me back up.

(40:44) So, when I turned So, talking about alcohol, cuz that’s the big vice. So, when I was turned 14, I was given my first bottle of beer on the colony and it’s Yeah. So, but once you’re 15, you’re considered an adult. So from 15 to about 22, I partied like I the restraints of God was gone. I was into the world up to my neck with some drugs.

(41:08) I didn’t like drugs just a little bit. But as far as the world’s music, like they say, they’re not in the world. Geographically, they’ve removed themselves, but the world is very much alive in us. So >> to do this, did you have to go off the colony? >> No, no, it’s all there. >> Oh, really? >> We watch went to if we wanted to watch movies, which we did.

(41:24) We knew all the latest releases. We’d go to the neighbors and watch them or we had a TV hidden away. Black and white TV, lots of snow in it, static. So that but from age 15 to 22 was a very dark period in my life. I part like the the Bible talks about the passing pleasures of sin. >> So for a while it was >> kind of enjoyable.

(41:46) You did all sorts of crazy things. But after a while, the hangovers, waking up, not knowing what you did the day before, puking your guts out. But it was all part of the group I was with. And so we had lots of freedom. We had lots of friends, hundreds of hundreds, young people doing the same thing. >> And the and the elders of the colony just turn a blind eye.

(42:05) >> They do. Okay. >> They know what’s going on cuz they did it themselves. So that period of time, Mike, is what they call your sewing your wild oats. >> So it’s kind of acceptable. You know what? They’ll smarten up. And then once maybe they’ll they’ll get older, they want to get married, then we’ll then we’ll deal with them.

(42:22) And that’s basically what happened to me. Then like I stated earlier, but then I saw real change in some of these of my cousins who were but then others on the colony were saying, well, they have a different belief, a false belief cuz they were saying they had assurance of salvation. Their sins had truly been forgiven.

(42:40) And that’s one thing they did. They completely abstained from alcohol, which was a real eye opener to me. And he would sing these hymns. Hutterates loved your country music. So there a lot of guitar playing and all this harmonica. So they would just exclusively deliberately just play Christian hymns. >> So these are these are fellow hutterites that you grew up with. Yes. Young men.

(43:00) >> Yes. >> And they heard the gospel somehow and they were born again. >> Yeah. >> And they leave the colony or they stay? >> They stay for a period of time. >> They stay for a while and then then likely leave. >> Yes. Because they really have no choice. >> Okay. But you watch these guys and you’re thinking, >> “So instead of country music, they now want hymns.

(43:20) Instead of getting drunk, they’re sober.” And this hasn’t happened to them because they’re faithful hutterites. It’s happened to them because they’ve heard about being born again and all this. So you could see you were beginning to think >> maybe I’m just in a religion that’s not actually generating spiritual life and these people have got something I haven’t got.

(43:40) >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So then I would tune in on the radio because at that point I was driving tractor and I was searching because I was sick of my life. >> Okay. >> Um and I heard different evangelicals on the radio. Okay. >> And they would tell the Bible stories. But then they would talk about being saved that we’re all sinners.

(43:56) That we cannot please God. All we can bring to God is our sin. >> We have nothing to offer God. That by trying to >> to be good or trying to go to church and doing all the good things we call him, we’re actually trying to bribe him. Mhm. >> And that’s not possible because God is too righteous. He’s too just.

(44:14) He has to punish him. And that really resonated with me because you do have the fear of God. You do want to please God, but you’re never really given the ultimate solution. >> Mhm. >> Just hopefully. And you know, then it’s tightening your the screws on you like >> this is your cross. You got to bear it. >> So it’s terrible. It’s depressing.

(44:33) It’s it leads to a very dark dark existence. So then after I went through what the Hutterite system had to offer and I was sincere and there’s a lot of sincere people on the Hutter colonies who have done this step but yet they don’t have peace with God. >> So one of my cousins came by and I remember actually I was kneeling down one of the preachers had his hands open and put poured a little bit of water in the ordained minister could feel the water.

(44:58) I sat up and I didn’t feel different and I’m not saying this was your baptism. >> That was my baptism on the Hutter colony. They poured water into your hands >> on not my hands but the guy above me and >> pou it onto your head. >> Yeah. >> Just a little bit enough that you feel it. That’s their method what they call baptism but that’s not baptism according to the Bible.

(45:14) >> So any I remember sitting up and I said to the Lord this is not authentic. Like I still didn’t have peace. And at that point I was like Lord show me >> that I was like you know what I don’t really care what happens after this who my friends are. I need to find the truth. M >> and then my cousin came home and right after the baptism and gave me a big hug and said, “How do you feel?” And I lied to her cuz I didn’t know what to say to her. I was mixed up. I was confused.

(45:37) I said, “I feels good.” But then thankfully, God in his grace kept revealing Christ to me and that it was a gift >> through the Bible through the radio >> and talking to friends tracks. I was given tracks to read, >> good Christian tracks that I can never be saved >> going on to where I was. But it that God, it’s not a prize.

(45:59) It’s not something we can work for or have to. Christ said, “It is finished.” And what beautiful words those were, >> Mike, when you realize you can’t do anything. >> And I two months later, around that point, I got saved. And >> so just describe that moment. So two months later, you’ve been working through seeing the difference between works and faith.

(46:19) And >> yeah. >> So on the moment you got saved, what what did you see? What did you learn? What did you What? Actually, >> I can’t really say that it was a moment in time. Salvation is a moment in time. I know that it’s not a process, >> but because of the confusion that was in my head from being indoctrinated all those years, >> I cannot pinpoint.

(46:41) >> But I do know that I had an inward joy. I had an inward peace. I wanted to read the Bible. >> I I had started reading it in English. They don’t want you to do that. Mainly said they can control you. cuz they find out all of us who were saved were read in the English Bible >> cuz again they’ve indoctrinated you to some of the meanings that are in the German Bible like justification, sanctification, redemption, all these beautiful terms we love as believers.

(47:09) So they’ve just they’re just completely confused by it. >> Mhm. >> So it was just >> No, I can understand that because what you’re saying is >> I was so in the dark. Yeah. I didn’t even know what it meant to be saying, >> but I’m reading the Bible and I’m getting light. And then at some point in that process, >> I think >> it was faith where you realize it’s finished.

(47:31) The work is done, but but you’re at the time you’re not thinking I need to write the date down. >> I know. Yeah. No one ever told me that. >> Exactly. Exactly. Well, that’s wonderful. So, I’m conscious of the time. We’ve only got about 22 minutes left. So, I want to get on to Derek and Dan’s story. >> Which is totally different. >> Yeah.

(47:48) because you were rebels and ran away, right? >> That is right. >> So, give us a little bit about that. >> So, Derek and I always had we we were more I would say nominal hunter rightites. We wouldn’t be fully convinced by the religion and we always wanted to have freedom. We want to experience the world both of us. And and I remember we want to go out and and and live the life of the world.

(48:12) And we actually I remember thinking that I don’t ever want to stay in a colony. Maybe a little bit different than others like maybe Dawn here, >> but we would I think both of us would would say we never want to come back to this place. We we just had we didn’t really we liked growing up like that, but we wanted to have more.

(48:30) >> That was that was how >> did you know that more existed? >> No, we we would have had something that >> for TV. >> We had a TV in our in our room which was totally frowned upon. My dad would have been so angry, but he had no idea. We secretly got a TV. So, we were kind of a little bit cultured to what’s going on outside because they try to keep you from knowing what’s going on outside in the world.

(48:56) So, so that that you might be ignorant and so on. So, nowadays, I know they have cell phones and all that. they have they have internet access and so on. But we at our time we were able to get a TV into our house and we watched all the stuff that you can think of. We had five channels, farmers channels and so on.

(49:14) And I remember we actually wanted to leave and we wanted to experience the world and we never wanted to come back. But going back a little bit further, I I do remember the colony not giving me any kind of hope. I remember going to Sunday school. I remember this very distinctly um until I was 15 years old. I remember going to Sunday afternoon to Sunday school.

(49:33) Every Sunday afternoon there is Sunday school as well. So all the children from 5 to 15 go to Sunday school. Where is it? Is it even longer than that? >> 15 the older ones. 15 over 15. Okay, that’s right. And I remember they were talking about about um my dad my dad was the Sunday school teacher as well I guess cuz I remember him talking and I remember specifically feeling darkness a feeling of darkness in my soul after every Sunday school.

(50:02) I remember going home walking out of Sunday school walking home to my house and I was like this feeling of dread and darkness that I could not shake until about an hour later until I forgot about everything related to God. and there was just this darkness there and that that I had personally and and so deep down I knew the hunter colony wasn’t the way.

(50:23) Um my going back a little bit further my mom actually was a true born again Christian a lovely lovely Christian and she always shared with us that Jesus the colony is not the way to heaven. Jesus alone is >> Jesus alone is the way to heaven. Um she she would raise us with the hymns uh nothing but the blood of Jesus.

(50:43) Um my hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness and she would sing us this these songs all our life growing up. So we’re very blessed to have a Christian mom amazing Christian mom. Dad on the other hand so there’s a lot of friction in the house because he was the minister the headed minister in the Hutterite colony.

(51:00) So there was a lot of friction. I remember that mom always we had a revival going through our colony woodlands there >> uh at I believe it was about 10 years before I left and there was a lot of uh like um uh friction going on there a revival was coming through where people have gotten saved okay >> and they and the gospel maybe 10 people or so got saved and there was a great people came my dad would call other preachers in the hut committee so there’s a committee over the they’re they’re somewhat autonomous but at the same time they’re under um the a

(51:36) committee so they have to follow the rules of the committee. >> So uh I remember but this committee would come when Christians got when people got saved and come become born again Christians they would be called by the the preacher on the colony for the committee to come and and they would all come and have a counsel with the people at the church.

(51:55) She would call the Christians together and have like a meeting with them and tell them what do you believe, why do you believe this and so on and so forth and try to reinforce them back to the hutterite system and they never could do that and I remember my dad so my mom would always stick up for the hut for the Christians >> and she always and she always fight they are right and dad would say no they’re wrong and so on there was a lot of friction in the house because of mom’s faith um so there was a lot of conf conflicted we didn’t quite know what to

(52:20) believe >> so it was a little bit confusing although mom had a profound influence in our lives. We knew what she had was real cuz she was incredible. She was different than the rest. She was different. And then so we actually wanted to um wanted to leave that place. And I remember we were so we we decided to run away from the Hutter.

(52:42) We were just 17 years years old, just kids still. And but we we so desperately wanted to leave. And and I remember my sister Amanda, she was talking about leaving because she she had gotten saved. And then so so she she was talking about leaving and we were like we have if we want to leave we have to leave now lest we are the last ones left and we completely destroyed dad’s heart cuz we knew he was going to be so affected cuz your sons are very >> it in a colony your sons are everything.

(53:10) >> It’s your it’s like your posterity. They can get the big jobs in the colony. They can be the leaders and so on and so forth. And I think D can maybe continue from here. What do you >> So, how did you h how did you plan the escape then? >> Well, we we got a we we we had a little pocket money which you can make.

(53:32) It’s frowned upon to have they say it’s for all for the colony. So, you’re not supposed to have any money for yourself. >> Yeah. >> But, you know, you want to have a little bit something for yourself, of course. And then so we we we had a trap line and my twin brother to make money for pocketing money >> for ourselves.

(53:51) So we went out and we caught some furs and and sold them and all privately kind of >> and then you got a little puck on money. So it’s that’s how we did it. >> That’s not clever. >> Open secrets. Open secret. It’s open secret. I guess >> every generation does it. >> Yeah. And so what happened is >> So this is how you get your bus ticket to leave.

(54:09) And so we we me and Dan were like, “Okay, well, we had a a flip phone.” So we went to the city one time for an appointment, doctor’s appointment. So you can go to to the city if you have an appointment. You have to ask the elders of the >> of the council and they can say yes, you can go or no, you can’t go. >> But if you have an appointment, you have a good reason to go and then can let you go.

(54:26) So then we had an appointment and we go and we while we’re there, we would get >> with the little pocket of money that we had, we would, hey, let’s buy a flip phone cuz so nobody can track us if we’re calling for a phone. If we’re calling for a job, let’s say you want to go a job outside a colony, we want to run away. You want to keep it private.

(54:42) >> So, what we would do is we’ get a we get a everything was secretive. Like we had this all thing planned. >> So, let’s get a a phone that we can um a flip phone so nobody can track us from the colony. There’s only one phone line that everyone can has can phone through. >> So, then that’s what we would do.

(54:57) We go get get a flip phone and we we call some of the exhaust people that we knew that had left the colony and they had they had their own businesses. >> Yeah. And so we would try and get a job with them because they’re people that we know. We have contact with them somewhat. >> And so then we would get a little money and then we’d also arrange with some other friends in a different colony that we knew that had had access to a vehicle and they would be able to pick us up at a certain time and so we could coordinate all of this and get them to

(55:22) buy buy us a ticket. We give them the money and they would buy us a ticket bus ticket. So all we needed to do is come go from our colony where we we were situated to the nearest city which had a bus which is Portage Prairie at the time from my colony. >> So what time of night did you run away? >> This is around 11 11:30 11:30ish and then so we had a bus ticket.

(55:41) The guys would be waiting behind our house for lights to come from a distance. They’re coming at a certain time that was that we had planned it. We’d be getting a garbage bag or a garbage bag of clothes and we just wait till they come in and we meet them at a distance and they they would take us.

(56:00) It’s like running away really secretive and you feel this rush and it’s like and and they pick you up and take you to the bus station. So what happened with us, we went to bus station in in Portage La Prairie and we had to wait in the it was such a fear because that’s where everyone knows if you run away and they find out you run away they go there to try and get you back. Mhm.

(56:15) >> So, we were actually sitting in the back of that that Greyhound bus station in the trees. We dare not stay in front cuz it was delayed a little bit. They were scared. We’re like, “When are they going to come?” We’re looking always very anxious and then someone would would come and then the the bus would come finally a couple hours later and then we would go into the bus and it was like a 24-hour drive with the bus to to Cal a city called Calgary.

(56:42) So it’s Manitoba where we were from through Saskatchewan into Alberta which is another province and then a city called Calgary. So we would go all the way there. That’s quite a distance. That’s a long long drive. >> So you you guys were 17year-old twins. You ran away to Calgary. Now I’ve already talked to you in the background so I know you spent some time there.

(57:00) Living it up in the world. >> That is correct. >> Drinking, smoking, partying. >> That is exactly right. >> How long did that last? Now, this lasted only for I would say about five, was it four or five months. Um, it was quite a culture shock obviously cuz you’re coming from a farm. You’ve never really lived away from home and now you’re living in this massive city and you’re you you don’t even know what a credit card is.

(57:26) So, you you have to get all that stuff sorted out. You get used to it somewhat fast. >> And and and so I remember we we lived in Calgary. I worked in Canmore and we were quite we we would actually party quite a bit. I I do remember for the first time in my life actually getting totally drunk and so on and and waking up throwing up and all that that trash >> and I remember feeling like this is I mean I didn’t expect to be feeling this empty. It was an emptiness there.

(57:57) um that we but at the same time we were we we we did want that but we wanted to come back which is very unique. We wanted to come back to Manitoba. Now if I back if I back up a little bit we had this desire my brother Mark he was he got saved >> he’s older than you >> he’s older than us. He would be about 12 years older than us and he always came to the colony actually forgot to mention that earlier and he would share the gospel with us.

(58:25) Uh, and I remember we were scared of him. We didn’t want to have anything to do with him because he would share he would talk openly about our sins and about hell and about Christ on the cross and so on. And we would be we didn’t we were just did not want to hear that. It was kind of terrifying to us.

(58:44) And then so I remember we when we left we were like we’re not going to go to the Christians. We’re going to want to have our own way. But for some reason we wanted to come back to Manitoba. We had the dream out in Calgary and yet we wanted to come back to Manitoba and Derek and you can go here from here. You went back to Manitoba for a trip, right? So this is while we were in Calgary living a sinful life that like Don was saying the pleasures of sin experiencing that.

(59:11) We I went back on a visit in between this four or five months uh with with my my boss at the time that I was with cuz he also was exile right going back to visit his family in the colony. But then I was going back and my brother Mark lived in Winnipeg and he was also runaway and he had also been saved like my brother Daniel was saying and he I I stayed with him for about four or five days while we’re met to for a visit in Manitoba and he took me out to uh a church meeting where he was going a local church that he was at where they preach

(59:44) the gospel >> and I remember going to a a time when he was when they were to a breaking of bread meeting in the morning, a remembrance meeting at that church where he was at. And I remember sitting in the back >> Mhm. >> and being absolutely amazed and like it struck me so much that these people have have it. They’ve got the truth.

(1:00:09) So much so that I was and I saw I was just observing them. I realized they know God. >> Amen. >> They’re speaking to God as if they know him. It really was like it was it’s such an eye opening experience and it convinced me. >> And you were just 18 at the time. >> I was just 17 at the time and and just by by observation and watching this >> Mhm.

(1:00:30) >> uh with my brother Mark just the remembrance meeting by seeing these people they’re speaking to a real savior. They have a real person. I don’t I don’t have the savior. What I’ve had growing up and what I what I thought I had is actually nothing >> real. I don’t have the truth. And that started a little that started something in my heart.

(1:00:49) And then I rang up my brother Daniel and I said to him, “Bro, they have the truth. >> They have the truth.” And he said to me, “Stay away from them. Stay away from because unless we’ve been infected because we were like, we want to have our life, our sin li. We know.” So we’re kind of torn in the middle there.

(1:01:05) We realized what they have is true. What we don’t have, what we have is not true. >> But yeah, we we wanted our our sinful life, >> right? >> So we were in in this in this way. And then I went back to Calgary and I remember living there. I remember distinctly right now the Lord started working with my heart and I I was after this whole like drinking partying life.

(1:01:25) There’s one time I went home for a walk. It was about an hour walk from my neighborhood where I was at in Calgary. >> And I was thinking this this thought came to my heart. Where would you be if you died today? Now it was so powerful that it it it it stuck with me. It did not leave and there was there was no answer and the answer would have been from my heart if I had to be honest is I would be in hell but there was no way out.

(1:01:54) >> I realized thing I remember thinking there’s no hope the colony what I learned there my whole life there’s no hope. I don’t have any hope. >> Mhm. >> And so that was kind of the start where the Lord started working. I know from my heart by seeing the church there, seeing the people there in that church that Mark was at and seeing that they’re they have a salvation, there’s something real and I don’t have what they have.

(1:02:15) >> So then I’m conscious we’ve only got sort of 10 minutes and we want to get a lot more in. So you then came back from Calgary in Alberta through Saskatchewan back into Manitoba and you started working for your brother Mark. Was that right? Now, I would I started working for my brother Mark, but shortly afterwards after we came back to Manitoba, I got a job working with him right away.

(1:02:41) And I was only here for maybe a week, not even a week. >> And the church that my brother Mark was at >> had uh a special meetings. There was children’s meetings at the time, but then they also had a a special speaker the maybe the other week. I’m not quite sure, but there was a preacher from the UK here.

(1:03:00) His name was Eric Parmentor, I remember. And my brother Mark was talking about asking us to come out to the meetings if we wanted to come out. He was very nice about it and he didn’t pressure us, but we were like we wanted to have our own life still at this point. >> And I remember we I went to that but then so Derek and I I remember my brother Mark this one Sunday specifically. It was November 11, 2007.

(1:03:22) I’m never going to forget that date. >> It’s a precious date actually. And I remember he asked us to come out to to this church where he was attending. It was the end of these meetings and there was this one preacher and he preached on John 3 and 16. >> So this is literally a week after you got back. >> This is a week after I got back.

(1:03:44) We we we avoided that church for a while because we wanted to have our own wasted. We said, I remember we were at the Blue Bombers game in the afternoon of that Sunday and and we said maybe we should go just to please Mark to get him off our back. Maybe we should go there. Uh just and then he’s not going to ask us anymore.

(1:04:03) And so we said we decided yes, we’ll go and and I remember at that at that church hearing the go a clear gospel. >> Amen. >> Of Christ and our lost condition before God. What does that mean? Lost condition. >> Lost condition really means that we are ruined in sin. A scripture like Romans 3:23 says, “For all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God.

(1:04:29) ” So, every one of us have fallen short of God’s perfect standard >> because of our sin. >> So, this preacher was explaining, >> this preacher was explaining this for the first time and and I remember him speaking for God and he it looked so dark and then he spoke on for God. so loved the world and he emphasized so what did he do that he gave his only begotten son that’s Jesus Christ that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life and I remember sitting in that meeting for the f first time in my life realizing where

(1:05:02) I was that I was actually lost because up to up till now I kind of thought I might be make it to heaven I I’m not sure I’m I think I’m a good enough guy I didn’t know and this is the first time our lives in my life or spirit of God convicted me of my sin and I realized where I where I was going that I’m actually lost that I need to be saved.

(1:05:22) I need a savior and I remember being I was sh I think I was even shaking in my seat there and and I remember after and I could not shake it. I’m like I this is for the first time I realized this is truth >> and I need to I need to get this settled tonight. And I remember from not hearing at all to all of a sudden being shaking.

(1:05:43) And I remember that night afterwards, my brother and Mark and Derek would go out and would go home and I would say to my brother Derek, I they would kind of be laughing about something and I would be thinking, “How can they be laughing? I need to we’re we’re lost and we need to get this dealt with.

(1:05:59) There’s no time to laugh.” I remember thinking that way. And I remember going up into that washroom there in Winnipeg in my brother Mark’s house and I would go straight into the washroom and I locked the door and I fell on my face before God. >> And I just cried out to God, please save me, Lord. I knew I need to be saved.

(1:06:15) I’m lost. Please save me. And right at that moment, I remember a verse that came into mind, the same verse he was preaching on. It says that whosoever believeth in him, >> and I realized it’s all Christ. It is actually nothing to do with uh whosoever does good works or whoever gets baptized, whoever lives in the Hudite colony, it says nothing of that.

(1:06:35) It says whosoever believes or trusts or relies in Christ. >> Is this John 3:16? >> That is John 3:16. Whosoever trusts in Christ alone >> uh and at that moment I got saved >> and I washed the floor and the Lord Jesus Christ saved my life. And maybe Derek can go on after and talk about that. >> So then what did you think of that? So he comes out of the the washroom and and he just rejoices.

(1:07:00) I go, “I just got saved.” He tells my brother Mark. And I’m like, “Oh boy, he’s he’s one of those now. He’s one of those. He’s he did it.” Cuz I knew he was >> and he was the one that didn’t want you. >> Yeah. I remember he was he was the one that was just before like really want to be saved cuz I remember he turned to me in the car and said, “Derek, we need to be saved.

(1:07:19) ” And I was like, “Yeah, you’re right. I feel uncomfortable.” But I hadn’t been struck like he had. And he was very much like like this is real. If I die tonight, we’re gonna be where are we going to go? And it’s this real almost panic in his eyes. >> And so when he came out actually now I got sealed and like oh boy okay well I’m the one out. I don’t have it.

(1:07:39) And and so for me it took a little bit longer. It took a couple more weeks week and a half longer. And through that time was a very difficult time for me. Um, I I was still holding on to things of myself and holding on to to my friends and what I have to give up >> and realizing that this is this is real and I but not realizing that there’s nothing that I can do yet.

(1:07:58) I said, I’ll get see you when I can when I want to. >> And over a period of of a week and a half, the Lord started working with me individually. And I remember being starting to be convicted of my sin. So I realized that I’m I’m lost just like he was saying, but trying to be saved. I realized I I can’t get this.

(1:08:17) I because I knew he had just been saved like this since this is quite easy. I just but I just couldn’t get my soul was dark and I remember just being very in turmoil. I remember the the two nights before >> especially the night before I actually got saved. I was at home in my brother Mark’s house and I mean my brother Mark would ask me sometimes are you saved or would they challenge me? >> And I be like no I’m not or yes I am.

(1:08:41) Just get him off my back a little bit. But he didn’t realize it wasn’t insincere. But then all of a sudden I would be like, “Okay, that night before I was really convicted of my sin and realized I actually am lost.” >> Amen. >> And it was a realization but not just dark, not knowing how to be saved. And the next morning I remember going to to a warehouse at work.

(1:09:01) >> This is in Winnipeg. And I was I was a truck carrier. I was driving delivering parcels to different businesses. >> And I remember just almost scared of even going there cuz I was scared of dying. >> Mhm. cuz I’m like I’m in this lost state and I’m I’m desperate right now. So much so that when I went to the warehouse at 6:30 in the morning of it was November 20, 2007.

(1:09:23) I went and I just was at the end of myself and I fell on my face in the the bathroom the sorry the washroom there. I went aside. I was I like I can’t work today. I I I rather not work. I’m just I’m lost. And I fell on my face. I remember throwing my gloves in the corner and just falling off. I’m lost and I’m going down and there’s not like just like the past but more this is now at the end of myself. No hope. No hope.

(1:09:49) >> And all of a sudden when I realized this is it light came to my life. Jesus died for me. It is finished. >> Mhm. >> And like Jesus died for me. Where did that come from? That’s why Jesus died for died for me. >> So you’d heard that but now it was like >> it was I had heard this. I had heard this >> because you because you understood your loss. Now you can see it. Exactly.

(1:10:08) Because I understood I was lost and and it’s I think you have to come to that place when you realize you’re hopelessly lost and you’re a sinner and there’s nothing you can do about it and you’re you’re desperate and it’s in that moment when God revealed to my heart Christ is the way Jesus died for you.

(1:10:25) He paid for that. >> So did you know I am saved at that point? >> I knew for 100% fact >> there and nobody could take it from me. Yeah, >> I was beyond amazed. I was like, “This I’m saved.” >> Mhm. >> Jesus did it all. >> And then I told my brother Mark and Dana that that same day, that night. And Mark turned to me and said to me, “We’ll see.

(1:10:50) ” >> And I remember thinking, “We will see. >> Nobody can take this from you.” Amen. >> Cuz Jesus paid Jesus paid for it. >> Yeah. >> He is my savior. Nobody can take that from you. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And I had him as I changed. Mhm. >> I became a different person. >> Very much so. >> So, let’s just take a couple minutes here. I finish with you, Don.

(1:11:11) So, this video could be watched by anybody anywhere in the world, but let’s just say there’s a Hutterite person watching this video right now. >> Mhm. >> And they can resonate with some of the stuff you’ve been saying about the colony and their upbringing and whatever. Or maybe there’s one that’s run away and they’ve tried the world and it doesn’t seem to work.

(1:11:32) What would you summarize in like two minutes? What do you What do you want to tell that person? >> What I would love to tell that person like God can save you. He loves you. >> Christ died for you. You can be free from your sin. >> You can know Jesus Christ as your own and personal savior. >> Get your get a Bible.

(1:11:56) Get it in English so you can actually understand it properly and read it. the verses here that are very precious. First John 5, it’s very salvation work has been done. It’s actually really simple. It says, “He that has the son hath life. >> He that does not have the son has not life.” So, do you have Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? And it says, “And these things I have written unto you that believe on the name of the son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life and that you may believe on the name of the son of God.” So eternal

(1:12:33) life is a person >> and that person is Jesus Christ. And I also want to say, I know we want to keep this positive, but yet do not trust men who are not born again who tell you that you cannot know. >> Amen. >> Yeah. Because that says that you might know, right? >> Yes. And the Bible makes it clear that men who preach another gospel are not from God.

(1:13:00) >> Paul actually says in Galatians that they’re accursed. >> So don’t trust me. Don’t trust your preacher. Look to the eternal word of God. >> Yes. >> And like my brothers have shared, you have to come to the end of yourself >> and Christ will give you life. Amen. >> And then you’re justified. Mike, what an amazing thing.

(1:13:22) He not only forgives you, >> but you’re put into the right standing with God. >> Being justified by faith, you have peace with God. >> So God sees you now in the perfect righteousness of his son. >> He has imputed righteousness. And what a beautiful truth it is to people who grew up religious. >> Thinking somehow they can please God. >> There’s millions of stories out there.

(1:13:44) >> We’re not unique. >> Amen. >> But we’re justified. >> We’ve been reconciled. We were enemies. >> But now we’re the children of God. >> Hallelujah. >> Amen. It’s been really wonderful. I can’t tell you. We’ve been wanting to do this for so long and now we’ve done it >> and it’s out there. you you know the way you see things now through the scriptures is just like night and day compared with what and it’s all the grace of God.

(1:14:13) >> Amen. Amen. >> We’re so thankful for the precious Lord Jesus Christ. It’s him and him alone. >> Amen. Amen. >> It’s him. We cannot emphasize that enough. It’s Jesus Christ and him alone. He is the only way to heaven. That’s who who we rejoice in. Amen. >> And then and sorry and the emphasis is not on anything you do. So baptism.

(1:14:32) >> Yeah. follows salvation. >> Sure. But it’s not meritorious. >> Amen. Exactly. >> Dan, Don, Derek, thank you so much for being with us. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much, Michael. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Wonderful.